Old Structure vs New Structure

[afishinado]

Interesting observation >

New Structure | Old Structure

Eventually, a river accepts new additions. within a few seasons, time and water make the changes to the riverbed. Nature finds its course, and trout respond.

troutbitten.com

 

[Swattie87]

We have a strong contingent of fans of natural, large woody debris around here. It seems the Trout prefer “wild” habitat too.

 

[troutbert]

In my experience, in streams with decent wild trout populations, there will be trout in every decent habitat spot, regardless of whether that habitat is old or new.

I fished a stream where the Bureau of Forestry had done recent chop and drop. It was so recent that the sawdust and cuts still looked fresh, not darkened. And there were plenty of wild trout where this big wood created pools and cover.

I wish the article had included photos of the "new structure" spots that didn't produce fish. Maybe they just weren't very good habitat spots.

Also, the article mentions that a TU chapter did the large wood addition project. I know the Bureau of Forestry has been doing a lot of this work. I haven't heard of any TU chapters doing it. Does anyone know of places where they have?

 

[Fish Sticks]

Maybe just some browns under those hemlocks displacing the brookies that wouldn’t take dry dropper or w/e they were using. assuming bigger deeper habitat in the “new habitat” since downstream vs. “old habitat” but who knows.

 

[caddisflyer]

(I realize the cutting of trees into the stream is different than what I am describing.) I am never a fan of the scouring of the stream bed with a backhoe followed by the placement of logs along the banks. Apparently this is supposed to create an undercut where trout can hide. I have caught fish from these places but always small. The one stream where I saw these placed had natural wood and natural undercuts previous to the so called improvement and did produce nice fish regularly up to 18". Not anymore. Talking a fairly small wild trout stream. The streams where this type of work were done were all 3 TU projects.

 

[redietz]

In my experience, in streams with decent wild trout populations, there will be trout in every decent habitat spot, regardless of whether that habitat is old or new.

I agree. I've literally watched a sycamore tree fall into the water and caught a decent trout from within its fallen branches a half hour later.

 

[troutbert]

(I realize the cutting of trees into the stream is different than what I am describing.)

They are TOTALLY different. They are essentially opposites.

 

[C_kreek17]

(I realize the cutting of trees into the stream is different than what I am describing.) I am never a fan of the scouring of the stream bed with a backhoe followed by the placement of logs along the banks. Apparently this is supposed to create an undercut where trout can hide. I have caught fish from these places but always small. The one stream where I saw these placed had natural wood and natural undercuts previous to the so called improvement and did produce nice fish regularly up to 18". Not anymore. Talking a fairly small wild trout stream. The streams where this type of work were done were all 3 TU projects.

This is typically done on streams that have pretty aggressive stream bank erosion issues. Granted I don’t know what creek you’re talking about but I can bet that it had steep stream banks or fairly eroded banks. While calling it “fish habitat” is an added bonus, it’s usually not its main objective of the log placement

 

[Fish Sticks]

I think most people on here have hit class A or wild repro brook trout streams such as the one from the article and found that we can catch brook trout from riffles, runs, small shallower overhangs and then we get to some deep scour hole formed by a down tree or its roots thats deeper than he rest of the stream and we throw our dry dropper in the middle and no dice. Why is this primo habitat that looks like it should be loaded with brook trout not producing? Often because there is a bigger brown trout who is not going to come up and smash your chubby, stimulator, or humpy most of the time has pushed the brook trout to the shallow place you’re catching them and taken the best habitat. I would bet after a rain swinging a wooly bugger or jigging a sculpin under those hemlocks might prove their not so empty. This is one of the reasons fisheries scientists say we should not be trying to create big deep lunker pools in brook trout streams, they use it to displace them.

 

[caddisflyer]

This is typically done on streams that have pretty aggressive stream bank erosion issues. Granted I don’t know what creek you’re talking about but I can bet that it had steep stream banks or fairly eroded banks. While calling it “fish habitat” is an added bonus, it’s usually not its main objective of the log placement

These are all streams that are in valleys with lot's of legacy sediment from upstream agriculture. More like meadows that had grown up with trees over time. When natural wood was present the stream had nice areas for larger trout. Now the stream has a few holes created by backhoes but is otherwise of an even depth. The log structures funnel gravel and sand and mud downstream and it seems to fill in the natural holes and runs. Regarding TU projects, I was under the impression that TU would be involved with improving streams for trout and trout fishing mainly. The projects I am describing may have helped keep banks together in a few locations but the rest of stream suffered as a result and trout fishing went downhill.
The wood ,both natural and man made method seems much less invasive. I wonder why I do not see more of that in my area.

 

[C_kreek17]

Interesting. I know sediment is a big issue for waters within the bay watershed, with lots of funding going towards mitigating sediment to the bay. How long ago were these projects completed?

 

[caddisflyer]

Interesting. I know sediment is a big issue for waters within the bay watershed, with lots of funding going towards mitigating sediment to the bay. How long ago were these projects completed?

One is quite a few yrs old. One was done about two yrs ago and one is being done in stages. The first portion done is now silted in and has also funneled silt and sand into the holes below. All different streams in Chesapeake/ Susquehanna watershed.