Orvis layoffs

[casey36]

Orvis announced a 4% layoff due to unforseen problems with tariffs. I would assume that means raw materials. The are going to concentrate on fly fishing and upland hunting goods for the foreseeable future. They employ 1500 people.

 

[Nocktavius]

Make your s**t in the USA, problem solved

 

[hooker-of-men]

Were tariffs to blame last summer when this trend started at Orvis?

Or is there a more significant underlying problem with a business model built on selling fishing poles and rubber pants that cost equivalent to my mortgage payment?

 

[ROVERT]

Or is there a more significant underlying problem with a business model built on selling fishing poles and rubber pants that cost equivalent to my mortgage payment?

There may be a problem with the business model but I'm not sure it is with the price of rods and waders.

$1,100 for a company's top end rod has become the norm (Sage, Winston, Scott, Loomis, etc). The same is true of $800 waders (Simms, Patagonia, Skwala, etc). Orvis hits all of the price points the other big names in the industry do and even offers less expensive options, ie. Encounter.

The problem may be that people who like to think they are outdoorsy but really only go to football games buy Patagonia and LL Bean jackets, not Orvis. I suspect they don't have the following outside of their core areas to warrant such extensive product lines.

 

[HoboWithAFlyRod]

There may be a problem with the business model but I'm not sure it is with the price of rods and waders.

$1,100 for a company's top end rod has become the norm (Sage, Winston, Scott, Loomis, etc). The same is true of $800 waders (Simms, Patagonia, Skwala, etc). Orvis hits all of the price points the other big names in the industry do and even offers less expensive options, ie. Encounter.

The problem may be that people who like to think they are outdoorsy but really only go to football games buy Patagonia and LL Bean jackets, not Orvis. I suspect they don't have the following outside of their core areas to warrant such extensive product lines.

A look at Orvis’s catalog shows that they’re chasing lifestyle brand status beyond just the fishing and hunting gear market, but I don’t see much evidence that it’s working out for them. You hardly ever see somebody rocking an Orvis puffer jacket or fleece or what have you in public.

 

[TimMurphy]

A look at Orvis’s catalog shows that they’re chasing lifestyle brand status beyond just the fishing and hunting gear market, but I don’t see much evidence that it’s working out for them. You hardly ever see somebody rocking an Orvis puffer jacket or fleece or what have you in public.

Dear HoboWithAFlyRod,

You nailed it, but that has pretty much become the norm for all outdoor gear companies from my youth. They've become corporate in a bad way.

I have clothes from Cabela's, LL Bean and even Orvis that I bought 30 plus years ago that are still going strong. That won't happen today even if you spend 5X's the amount I spent back then on a chamois shirt or a 100% wool fishing sweater or shirt.

I miss the old days, a lot!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Nymph-wristed]

55% tariffs on tweed?

 

[hooker-of-men]

There may be a problem with the business model but I'm not sure it is with the price of rods and waders.

$1,100 for a company's top end rod has become the norm (Sage, Winston, Scott, Loomis, etc). The same is true of $800 waders (Simms, Patagonia, Skwala, etc). Orvis hits all of the price points the other big names in the industry do and even offers less expensive options, ie. Encounter.

The problem may be that people who like to think they are outdoorsy but really only go to football games buy Patagonia and LL Bean jackets, not Orvis. I suspect they don't have the following outside of their core areas to warrant such extensive product lines.

Sure, the lifestyle thing is definitely a substantial issue. I imagine Patagonia and, hell, even Vineyard Vines ate Orvis' lunch quite awhile ago with soft goods. They can't change that.

But still, some of those names you mentioned are also now owned by private equity, right? I won't pretend to be some industry insider, but that seems like a bad sign to me, just like Far Bank discontinuing waders seems like a bad sign.

Everything I've heard suggests that any hard goods company that is remotely outdoors-oriented has been in panic mode since covid. I just don't feel like more high end luxury products are going to solve the problem.

 

[Sylvaneous]

Were tariffs to blame last summer when this trend started at Orvis?

Or is there a more significant underlying problem with a business model built on selling fishing poles and rubber pants that cost equivalent to my mortgage payment?

an issue on top of another issue, I can only assume. No crystal balls here.
Syl

 

[Sylvaneous]

Make your s**t in the USA, problem solved

Well, we CAN'T. Industrial capital isn't magic. The forces and interests that touts tariffs to force American manufacturing overlap significantly with pushing capital to the lowest cost provider. Trillions of manufacturing have been built up over decades in China to the point that a lot of sectors CANNOT be made without Chinese inputs. As, I believe Stalin said; "They'll sell us the rope we hang them with", or something like that. At this point, you manufacture with the infrastructure you have, not the one you want. We sacrificed $25 T-shirts to have $10 T-shirts, now trump tariffs will give us $40 T-shirts. It's just a material issue. And who, pray tell, will be making all this stuff? Hmmm???????

 

[[WR]]

A look at Orvis’s catalog shows that they’re chasing lifestyle brand status beyond just the fishing and hunting gear market, but I don’t see much evidence that it’s working out for them. You hardly ever see somebody rocking an Orvis puffer jacket or fleece or what have you in public.

That's the same dynamic that took down Woolrich, which was then snapped up by foreign VC. Last I looked it was all over priced high fashion garbage.

Which is a shame. My family used to buy Woolrich because it was just over the mountain , was well made, practical, and lasted forever.

 

[HoboWithAFlyRod]

Well, we CAN'T. Industrial capital isn't magic. The forces and interests that touts tariffs to force American manufacturing overlap significantly with pushing capital to the lowest cost provider. Trillions of manufacturing have been built up over decades in China to the point that a lot of sectors CANNOT be made without Chinese inputs. As, I believe Stalin said; "They'll sell us the rope we hang them with", or something like that. At this point, you manufacture with the infrastructure you have, not the one you want. We sacrificed $25 T-shirts to have $10 T-shirts, now trump tariffs will give us $40 T-shirts. It's just a material issue. And who, pray tell, will be making all this stuff? Hmmm???????

lol, lmao even

 

[[WR]]

lol, lmao even

Ummmm??? The point ?

 

[TimMurphy]

Ummmm??? The point ?

Dear WR,

It's a polite way of saying the corporations done sold us out. I said as much in my post above, but it didn't have a neat graph.

We have what many wanted, unfortunately. The current buyer's remorse is just crocodile tears.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[Letort]

I have quite a bit of casual shirts from both Orvis and LL Bean (my wife leans towards them for bday and Fathers day, etc). Generally, I prefer Orvis quality over LL Bean, but that is clearly subjective.

But hard to argue about the difference in price. Just looked at a comparable knit sport polo for comparison. LL Bean was $39.95 and Orvis was $89. Orvis is 2X the price for essentially an equivalent piece of clothing.

If Orvis doesn't get itself right side up, I fear they end up like Filson, Woolrich and Simms. Moving from their outdoor roots to a full lifestyle brand inside some private equity portfolio.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Well, we CAN'T. Industrial capital isn't magic. The forces and interests that touts tariffs to force American manufacturing overlap significantly with pushing capital to the lowest cost provider. Trillions of manufacturing have been built up over decades in China to the point that a lot of sectors CANNOT be made without Chinese inputs. As, I believe Stalin said; "They'll sell us the rope we hang them with", or something like that. At this point, you manufacture with the infrastructure you have, not the one you want. We sacrificed $25 T-shirts to have $10 T-shirts, now trump tariffs will give us $40 T-shirts. It's just a material issue. And who, pray tell, will be making all this stuff? Hmmm???????

Who will be making this stuff? Robots.

 

[dudemanspecial]

Who will be making this stuff? Robots.

Programmed by AI

 

[nymphingmaniac]

55% tariffs on tweed?

on dog beds 😆

 

[[WR]]

Dear WR,

It's a polite way of saying the corporations done sold us out. I said as much in my post above, but it didn't have a neat graph.

We have what many wanted, unfortunately. The current buyer's remorse is just crocodile tears.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

Yeh, I blame Jack Welch and his idiot adherents

 

[caddisflyer]

Everything I ever bought from Orvis has held up very well. I have several pairs of pants and they fit nicely and are a quality material. Maybe they are a bargain considering how well they are making things?
I cast one of those thousand dollar rods and it was great. If I didnt already own a few good rods I would buy one. If we are talking clothing and fishing gear I would take Orvis and Patagonia over any of the other brands. I also like Winston rods due to quality and warranty service.