SIMMS....in case u were wondering....

[dryflyguy]

Hey Bill, Toray is a textile company that makes woven and fiber products. They make Carbon Fiber and I have used that material in other work. Toray has a great reputation.

I have said this before and stand by it. I am not a brand loyalist, I am a product loyalist. Some companies make better products than others, but not across the board. I love the simms wader taco, but not their waders. I love Dr. Slick scissors but their bobbin holders are just okay but their whip finish tools are amazing. C&F makes great fly boxes. Orvis has great rods, and an even better warranty. I like the Orvis backpack better than any of the Patagonia backpacks - for fishing. But for an even better backpack? Mindshift or Osprey. Reels - Galvan for Euro/mono, and Ross for fly lines.

In terms of waders, I have had Cabelas, FT, and last few pairs are Patagonia. The waders are great, but the warranty and repair is why I come back. They stand behind their products and are willing to fix them when I break them - for free, and quickly.

Bottom Line - Warranty Details:
I love Scott rods, and I fish them a lot. Break a tip or mid section? Send the whole rod back, wait about 10-12 weeks and pay $125 bucks PLUS $65 return shipping. Is it worth that? Not sure. Orvis repair is 5 days and only $60 handling for a rod. The difference in rod action is not enough to justify that. Ross has a great warranty and turn around time for reels. They also have all the parts for old and discontinued models. I already mentioned the warranty experience from Patagonia, and that is largely why when I need a new pair I will go right back and buy them.

Since those Freestone waders leaked at the seams on both sides, I think it was a construction issue

 

[CRB]

What waders are the best to buy?

What's the best value? Which waders have the best utility/cost ratio?

I've been purchasing waders when they go on sale. Usually when simms changes up the wader usually get at least 30% off.

 

[Broodstock]

I've been purchasing waders when they go on sale. Usually when simms changes up the wader usually get at least 30% off.

yes. in fact, most of the stuff I buy is on sale/clearance or used. Having some friends with pro deals also helps.

 

[Dipnrip]

Think all waders are junk. Seam construction seems to be the weak point. I purposely pre seal all the boot seams when I buy cheaper pair.
The advantage is Simms neoprene seems to be better than others. I always buy on sale knowing the cost isn’t worth the 3-5 years of real use before repair becomes near impossible

 

[dryflyguy]

yes. in fact, most of the stuff I buy is on sale/clearance or used. Having some friends with pro deals also helps.

A good time to buy gear on sale is in the fall - after October typically

 

[dryflyguy]

Think all waders are junk. Seam construction seems to be the weak point. I purposely pre seal all the boot seams when I buy cheaper pair.
The advantage is Simms neoprene seems to be better than others. I always buy on sale knowing the cost isn’t worth the 3-5 years of real use before repair becomes near impossible

A lot of truth here IMO
Although at least with the Simms goretex, I'm usually able to find and repair the leaks myself
Usually not the case with other brands I've tried

 

[Mike T.]

Last four pairs of waders have been Orvis, Simms, Redington, and Dryft. I'd say the best of my bunch are the Dryft. Fit, finish, durability, and best price, too. Just my experience. I take care of my waders but I do fish them kinda hard. Lots of walking and wading through rough stuff, dragging knees, clambering around wood and stone. I'd buy Dryft again, the others not so much. Would like to try Patagonia or Skwala but they're pricey for me.

 

[Billems]

I own Simms waders; I am happy with them. Bought a Simms vest a while back, too. I always avoided advertising on my gear. When fishing, I now look like I'm in the yuppie wading uniform. Good product, yet I still feel like a dweeb in a Montana army gear.

 

[joebamboo]

I've been pretty happy with the Skwala Carbon Waders.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

Upon further investigation, Gore-Tex is actually PTFE and not nylon or polyester. It is different. I still stand by the fact that 99.9% of everything is marketed brand names of polyester and nylon. I have had Gore-Tex garments (shoes, jackets) and have not been overly impressed. It doesn't mean I will rule Gore-Tex out for the rest of my life, though, but it does mean I am not instantly swooned by its use or by stuff flashing the Gore-Tex brand name around.

you beat me to the correction.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I want to point something out to you guys, and these are things I learned from my years of being an avid backpacker, not a fly fisherman, but the idea applies to a lot of stuff across life.

Gore-Tex waders mean nothing. Gore-Tex is a brand name of material technology, and it used to mean something, but that patent expired in 1997, and when it expired, many companies began their own versions or ripoffs of "Gore-Tex." Now, in my opinion, the words "Gore-Tex" are used to charge more for something because the name carries weight with consumers, just like the brand names Simms and Orvis carry weight and can almost automatically get people to pay more for it.

This same concept happens all of the time in the outdoor world. We are spoon-fed some nonsense about "new and superior fabrics," but in reality, everything is still just polyester, nylon, rayon, wool, or a blend of those. Stika and other companies have capitalized on this, but most of their stuff is just polyester. Sure, maybe that polyester is weaved in a way or pattern that didn't exist before that, but it is still just polyester. There have been very few new materials actually designed and brought to market.

Now, I am not saying that there is no difference between brands and quality; there is. In fact, trusted brands can and will produce high quality garments that will last longer, but there is nothing special about "Gore-Tex" anymore. There is nothing that overly separates it and makes it far superior than other membrane-style water-resistant nylons and polyesters.

This is just my 0.2, but when I began backpacking in earnest, it really helped me see through all the commercial advertising BS in the world, and I would say I had an eye-opening revelation of what is worth the money and what's not. This is all only for us to figure out for ourselves, however, but the words "Gore-Tex" written on something do not make me any more likely to buy it. For me, this is true of almost all fancy marketing buzzwords and fabric technologies.

the concept is not foreign, but PTFE membranes are manufactured to different specs by different companies. I use the membranes in molecular biology applications since versions bind proteins. PTFE membranes from what would be called well-known "marketing" companies (like waders companies described here) are superior to the "knock offs" made by cheaper sources. Is there a bit of a marketing and brand name premium built into the price, yes. But a big part of the price difference is performance.
I think I've read similar discussions here on fly lines. You could have even the same factory turning out very different quality of lines based upon the contract specs for seller of one brand versus another.

 

[dryflyguy]

the concept is not foreign, but PTFE membranes are manufactured to different specs by different companies. I use the membranes in molecular biology applications since versions bind proteins. PTFE membranes from what would be called well-known "marketing" companies (like waders companies described here) are superior to the "knock offs" made by cheaper sources. Is there a bit of a marketing and brand name premium built into the price, yes. But a big part of the price difference is performance.
I think I've read similar discussions here on fly lines. You could have even the same factory turning out very different quality of lines based upon the contract specs for seller of one brand versus another.

Geek speak way of saying that gore tex really is better?

 

[nymphingmaniac]

Geek speak way of saying that gore tex really is better?

🤣 more or less

 

[SBecker]

Last four pairs of waders have been Orvis, Simms, Redington, and Dryft. I'd say the best of my bunch are the Dryft. Fit, finish, durability, and best price, too. Just my experience. I take care of my waders but I do fish them kinda hard. Lots of walking and wading through rough stuff, dragging knees, clambering around wood and stone. I'd buy Dryft again, the others not so much. Would like to try Patagonia or Skwala but they're pricey for me.

Redington is no longer in the wader business. It is a shame, because many of us liked them. I have switched over to Grudens.

 

[dryflyguy]

Redington is no longer in the wader business. It is a shame, because many of us liked them. I have switched over to Grudens.

Do you think the Grudens are worth the money then?

 

[SBecker]

Do you think the Grudens are worth the money then?

They are the Simms of the past. So, yes.

 

[JG63]

I want to point something out to you guys, and these are things I learned from my years of being an avid backpacker, not a fly fisherman, but the idea applies to a lot of stuff across life.

Gore-Tex waders mean nothing. Gore-Tex is a brand name of material technology, and it used to mean something, but that patent expired in 1997, and when it expired, many companies began their own versions or ripoffs of "Gore-Tex." Now, in my opinion, the words "Gore-Tex" are used to charge more for something because the name carries weight with consumers, just like the brand names Simms and Orvis carry weight and can almost automatically get people to pay more for it.

This same concept happens all of the time in the outdoor world. We are spoon-fed some nonsense about "new and superior fabrics," but in reality, everything is still just polyester, nylon, rayon, wool, or a blend of those. Stika and other companies have capitalized on this, but most of their stuff is just polyester. Sure, maybe that polyester is weaved in a way or pattern that didn't exist before that, but it is still just polyester. There have been very few new materials actually designed and brought to market.

Now, I am not saying that there is no difference between brands and quality; there is. In fact, trusted brands can and will produce high quality garments that will last longer, but there is nothing special about "Gore-Tex" anymore. There is nothing that overly separates it and makes it far superior than other membrane-style water-resistant nylons and polyesters.

This is just my 0.2, but when I began backpacking in earnest, it really helped me see through all the commercial advertising BS in the world, and I would say I had an eye-opening revelation of what is worth the money and what's not. This is all only for us to figure out for ourselves, however, but the words "Gore-Tex" written on something do not make me any more likely to buy it. For me, this is true of almost all fancy marketing buzzwords and fabric technologies.

You are correct on all counts FWIW, the membrane is nothing more than thin teflon and always has been prone to damage from heat, excessive stretching, UV exposure etc etc. I’ve sold retail, sold wholesale, been brand name sales reps on and off for over 35 years - the cycle DOES repeat itself with “oversized” lines “super extra fast actions” and all kind of weasel words to get you to soend top dollar - then the US “manufacturer” sources out to whatever Chinese factory can put whatever brand into full scale dollar vaccum. By the time the QC starts to slide the name is sold to some company or rebranded under an “parent company” and so it goes - having carried and sold these (and other) lines - Winchester - Simms - Timberland - Woolrich - Columbia - Orvis - Sage - Browning - Remington - Rio - Bushnell - Sciemtific Anglers - Diamondback - Burris - Nikon - St. Croix - Universal Vise - Mustad - Daichi - Carhart - Semperfli - there are only a very few companies left that I can think of that source and make their products “in house”. Barbour, Cortland, and Filson being a few - and even they source much of their materials from wherever is cheapest - work in “the industry” for a few years and your brand loyalty will be changed or evaporate entirely.

 

[moorestowngreg]

You are correct on all counts FWIW, the membrane is nothing more than thin teflon and always has been prone to damage from heat, excessive stretching, UV exposure etc etc. I’ve sold retail, sold wholesale, been brand name sales reps on and off for over 35 years - the cycle DOES repeat itself with “oversized” lines “super extra fast actions” and all kind of weasel words to get you to soend top dollar - then the US “manufacturer” sources out to whatever Chinese factory can put whatever brand into full scale dollar vaccum. By the time the QC starts to slide the name is sold to some company or rebranded under an “parent company” and so it goes - having carried and sold these (and other) lines - Winchester - Simms - Timberland - Woolrich - Columbia - Orvis - Sage - Browning - Remington - Rio - Bushnell - Sciemtific Anglers - Diamondback - Burris - Nikon - St. Croix - Universal Vise - Mustad - Daichi - Carhart - Semperfli - there are only a very few companies left that I can think of that source and make their products “in house”. Barbour, Cortland, and Filson being a few - and even they source much of their materials from wherever is cheapest - work in “the industry” for a few years and your brand loyalty will be changed or evaporate entirely.

I've seen the same thing happen in the automotive aftermarket business after being an independent manufacturers rep for almost 40 years. I believe everything you've said because I've watched it. I don't think people realize this.