Susky Pollution

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Do you think there is something particularly nasty about Edinboro Lake? As the glacial pothole lakes in NW PA go, it is probably top half for being healthy and generally doing OK despite all the insults these lakes chronically get. If you want to see a sick lake, go over to Waterford and take a look at LeBoeuf.

Good to know that Lake Edinboro (what we called it in the early '70s) has gotten cleaned up. Way back when my family lived in Erie, our family spent 2-3 weeks every summer at the C&MA Church conference grounds, a short car ride away from the lake. It may not have been polluted in the sense we're presently talking, but what I specifically recall from >50 years ago...
- After seeing a dead dog floating in the roped off swimming area, my older sister refused to enter the lake again.
- I was just a kid who was ignorant of any potential waterborne illnesses, so I got water up my nose, swallowed some by mistake, and even opened my eyes under water.
- When one exited the water, the scum could be scraped off the skin. It may have been dead/dying algae, but we all thought it was nasty. Drying off after exiting the water would turn a white towel into a dingy brown.

I've never been to Waterford or LeBoeuf (and don't really want to see a sick lake), but we swam in Lake Erie, any of several creeks, rivers, or dammed impoundments with a constant inflow/outflow and Edinboro was - by far - the worst.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

I feel like a lifetime wet wading in Philly makes me invincible.... That and handling landscape chemicals for a decade paying my way through college and grad school.

Troubling, but I am Skuke-tested, Wissy-approved, so I would rather wet wade the Susky than experience swamp *** in August in waders.

 

[Mike]

I am Skuke-tested, Wissy-approved

Me too, but let’s not forget the Pennypack.

 

[krayfish2]

I'm thinking I'm on borrowed time and getting older every day. Wet waded the Susky since the early 80's. Tried to be conscious of open cuts by sealing them with liquid bandage and waterproof bandages. Always get home, rinse off with soap and pour peroxide on any cuts or scratches. 2 years ago, had an issue with my feet itching so bad over the summer that I couldn't sleep. Thought it was an allergic reaction to the foot bed in my wet wading shoes. It was only the bottom of my feet and it got to the point where I would go outside at night and rub them on the driveway until they were bleeding. It has never happened before and hasn't happened since. I'll attribute that to something out of the river. God knows there's enough awful stuff in there.

Some sections that are subject to run off or a very low flow / stagnation. It will have ridiculous blooms of brown and green algae where it makes the river look like beef broth instead of clear water. Don't find too many bass hanging in those areas either so they must not like it either.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Me too, but let’s not forget the Pennypack.

Okay, so I'll go knee deep almost anywhere. I am not sure about getting the wedding tackle wet in the Penny, however.

 

[TimMurphy]

Dear Board,

To put things in perspective, I lived for 11 years in Broome County NY. Binghamton is probably the King of CSO's on the river. I once caught a walleye, a smallmouth, and well loaded, well used Pamper on consecutive casts fishing at Rock Bottom Dam in Bingo just above the Exchange Street Bridge.

Much of our fishing was done around the Goudey Station powerplant outflow, and old Goudey Station Dam. I think I actually wore waders no more than 3 or 4 times on the river and once was in late November when my brother and I were wading below the outlet. Every smallmouth bass in the 5 miles below the outflow was in that 65-to-70-degree water column. We had a phenomenal day!

The rest of the time we wet waded, and in the summer coming into the river through the powerplant outflow was an adventure. The outflow was almost scalding hot, like 120 degrees, but you only had to negotiate 40 or 50 feet of it to get to the main river. Stepping out into the river below the dam after crossing the outflow was like stepping into a bucket of ice water, and the main river was probably close to 80 degrees in July and August.

As a kid I fished the Neshaminy at Playwicki Park and wet waded everywhere I ever fished until I bought hip boots when I was about 14 or so.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger was an old phrase back then, it's still true today.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[caddisflyer]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger until it kills you.

Wet waded some areas in Susquehanna a few years ago. Had some cracked feet from athletes foot or something. Got an infection in bloodstream. My foot swelled up . My doctor said it was a good thing I came in because it could be very serious. Had to go on antibiotics to get rid of it.

My friend swam in a creek after high water. Got spinal meningitis. Raw sewage was being dumped in upstream.

I believe Nixon signed clean water act in the 70's? Part of that law was that our rivers etc. should be suitable for swimming. Generations have passed and apparently money is thrown at many problems but for some reason cleaning up our streams rarely is addressed. Unfortunately the once most powerful nation on the planet is not very forward thinking.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I hate waders so much, I think I would give up fishing the Susquehanna and maybe wading in general if I had to go back to wearing waders...

However, not that I discount the information or the source, but doesn't anyone get rashes on their arms or hands from releasing fish, etc??

I don't know about the rest of you, but there probably isn't a day when I don't have a cut or three on my hands...

I have gotten rashes on my feet floating the big J-getting in and out. Not much anymore because (I think) I tracked factors. I used to wear thin socks with my wading sandals to keep the sun off and debris and small rocks from doing a number on my feet. The rash would form where I had the socks. It also correlated with stepping in muddy areas getting into the raft. I think trapping the mud and its components between the socks and skin did it. It could cause some microabrasions and/or prolong contact with the agents and my skin. Occasionally I'll get mild rashes where the straps of the wading sandals contact the skin but less so.
When I wet wade with wading socks and my boots- nothing. This is a poorly controlled experiment though because I float and WW different parts of the river usually.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

Harrisburg has a combined sewer system (like Altoona, the Little J). when rain exceeds a certain amount, sewage treatment in bypassed and it is dumped directly in the Susky. In the case of the J Bill Anderson said as little as a 0.5 inch of rain in one hour causes release into the LJ. I guess this occurs about 50 times a year.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

The problem with CSOs isnt just sewage treatment plant capacity in most cases, it is a relic of our ancient sewage and stormwater collection infrastructure. Much of this infrastructure is well over 100years old, replacement to increase capacity and/ or separate stormwater from sewage is mega bucks. I am not saying we as society shouldnt do better, but I would guess to solve this issue in Pennsylvania you would be well into hundreds of billions of dollars, if it stops there.

 

[Bamboozle]

I have gotten rashes on my feet floating the big J-getting in and out. Not much anymore because (I think) I tracked factors. I used to wear thin socks with my wading sandals to keep the sun off and debris and small rocks from doing a number on my feet. The rash would form where I had the socks. It also correlated with stepping in muddy areas getting into the raft. I think trapping the mud and its components between the socks and skin did it. It could cause some microabrasions and/or prolong contact with the agents and my skin. Occasionally I'll get mild rashes where the straps of the wading sandals contact the skin but less so.
When I wet wade with wading socks and my boots- nothing. This is a poorly controlled experiment though because I float and WW different parts of the river usually.

I use the same set-up everywhere; I wet wade with thick wool socks on my bare feet, a Neoprene guide sock over that and my regular wading shoes.

I've never had a problems with rashes or my feet except they look kind of scary from being in water all day... 😉

 

[TimMurphy]

The problem with CSOs isnt just sewage treatment plant capacity in most cases, it is a relic of our ancient sewage and stormwater collection infrastructure. Much of this infrastructure is well over 100years old, replacement to increase capacity and/ or separate stormwater from sewage is mega bucks. I am not saying we as society shouldnt do better, but I would guess to solve this issue in Pennsylvania you would be well into hundreds of billions of dollars, if it stops there.

Dear Lycoflyfisher,

The scene I described at Goudey Station in Johnson City NY has an even darker past. When I first moved up there, I met an older fellow fishing in the park.

He told me that the pool where the water was released from the power plant was formerly known as the Poop Pipe. In the 1950's and early 1960's before the Johnson City sewerage treatment plant was upgraded during times of heavy usage and higher river flows just about everything went into the Susky in a straight shot. When they were fishing or playing in the river as kids and things started to smell funky, they either retreated to the bank or went deeper until the smell dissipated.

As bad as things are now, they were much worse not that long ago.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[dudemanspecial]

I grew up at the junction of the Conemaugh/ Loyalhanna / Kiskiminetas rivers. Until I was a teenager, you wouldn't dare step foot in those rivers. PFBC surveyed the waters for life in the early 80's and found nothing. Completely dead. The town of Saltsburg had a sewage treatment plant that didn't work for years, just dumped right into the river.

It started getting cleaned up and in the mid 90s we began to canoe and swim it. I definitely got ill from swimming in there a few times, felt like the flu for a few days.

Now it gets so busy with kayakers on nice summer weekends I wont even go down it anymore.

 

[henrydavid]

I've seen these posts and read articles on this topic over and over throughout the years. With all this it still makes me wonder why not just wear the waders. I wade the Susky North Branch a lot, and quite often at night. I will NEVER go without waders and boots due to what I consider the obvious - broken glass, metal objects, hooks, and the like. I've heard several 1st hand reports of people who got some form of infection from exposed skin.

The one time I was camping and had forgotten to pack the waders, I did have the boots and put on a pair of synthetic base layers - a kind of modern long johns which worked fine in the warm water.

 

[Cznymph]

From the article:

In 2015, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection sued the water utility company for violating federal standards and releasing millions of gallons of untreated sewage into the Susquehanna River.

“You have failing septic tanks, you have other failing wastewater treatment plants in the area,” Evgeniadis said. “You have manure runoff, you have cattle and livestock that are in the creek that are just stomping around, defecating into the creek. And poor manure management by farmers, and then obviously whatever concoction you have within a stormwater mix, especially when it rains and we get runoff from farm fields.

“It’s a lot of different variables and a lot of different sources of pollution.”

His organization has for years tried to compel entities that discharge waste into the Susquehanna to come into compliance with state standards. That, he said, has been a herculean task, with little progress made.

As a result of the lawsuit, Capital Region Water was ordered to produce a long-term control plan that specifically addresses the elimination of combined sewer overflows. “They have yet to show and prove that they’re capable of putting a plan together that’s meaningful and that’s actually going to come into compliance,” Evgeniadis said.

Phewww, I was worried that all those McMansions with copious amounts of lawn fertilizer and pesticides, or even golf courses may have been the cause.

 

[FollowTheBlueLines]

Apologies in advance for getting off topic here, but this thread is bringing back fond memories of when I was 15 and got MRSA from jumping off the cliffs into the Green Lane Resevoir with an open wound I sustained from a mountain bike injury at an active construction site a few days prior. I sometimes wonder how I made it out of my adolescence in one piece.

 

[wildtrout2]

Unfortunately the once most powerful nation on the planet is not very forward thinking.

Agee. The USA always seems to be reactive, instead of proactive.

 

[afishinado]

Phewww, I was worried that all those McMansions with copious amounts of lawn fertilizer and pesticides, or even golf courses may have been the cause.

The Susquehanna's—and the Chesapeake Bay’s--pollutants fall into three broad categories: nutrients, sediments, and toxics. Nutrients include nitrogen and phosphorus which are applied to crops as fertilizer or manure on farm fields, parks and golf courses—and backyards. Farmers in the Susquehanna basin have historically applied a great deal of fertilizer to their crops.

StormwaterPA - Susquehanna River | How Healthy is Susquehanna River?

www.stormwaterpa.org

 

[wildtrout2]

The Susquehanna's—and the Chesapeake Bay’s--pollutants fall into three broad categories: nutrients, sediments, and toxics. Nutrients include nitrogen and phosphorus which are applied to crops as fertilizer or manure on farm fields, parks and golf courses—and backyards. Farmers in the Susquehanna basin have historically applied a great deal of fertilizer to their crops.

StormwaterPA - Susquehanna River | How Healthy is Susquehanna River?

www.stormwaterpa.org

Wasn't this found to be the cause of the Susky's YOY smallmouth die-off in the early 2000's?

 

[TimMurphy]

Wasn't this found to be the cause of the Susky's YOY smallmouth die-off in the early 2000's?

Dear wildtrout2,

The source of the die-off was never officially reported to the best of my knowledge. Apple carts didn't need to be upset!

The Shenandoah and Rappahannock Rivers experienced die-offs at the same time. Coincidentally I'm sure, all the die offs occurred not long after tremendous increases in CAFO's in the respective watersheds.

Draw your own conclusion, a road map is definitely not needed!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂