Mud snails in Lackawanna River

[dryflyguy]

I fished it this past Tuesday at a section in Scranton.
And saw one sign tacked on a tree as I was about to leave.

Stopped at a fly shop in ****son City to find out more.
Was told that they were just discovered in the past month or so.
A local employee there noticed them.
The fish commission was called into to check.
And confirmed that's what they are.

 

[Cznymph]

If anyone was curious, the Lackawanna River is stocked by the Benner Spring hatchery.

That would be the hatchery that PFBC said they “couldn’t guarantee” that NZM wouldn’t be transferred from.

 

[Mike]

Is it also one of those destination waters that anglers who frequent special reg areas also like to fish, special regs or not?

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Is it also one of those destination waters that anglers who frequent special reg areas also like to fish, special regs or not?

I can attest as I know many people in Scranton that it is under utilized by locals. And I have it on much good authority from many anglers that many travel past it to fish the Delaware rather than an urban trout stream.

Even so, no one will know where exactly they came from. I think you attempt to point to anglers as a possibility, and they are.
I think Cznymph points to hatcheries as being a possibly, and they are.

My issue is, many anglers are ignorant to these things, unfortunately. While it doesn't absolve them, how much worse is it for the Fish Commission then when they aren't ignorant on the matter!

 

[sixfootfenwick]

Id be curious to see if they show up in other waters like Roaring Brook.

 

[Bamboozle]

In what section of the river were they discovered?

Only Section 1 is stocked so if they aren't in that section, blame anglers...

 

[dryflyguy]

A friend of mine who lives in Scranton, calls the area the south side.
Close to Green ridge road.

After a quick check on the PFBC site, the only stream in the area that's stocked, is a section of Roaring Brook by a town called Dunmore

 

[Bamboozle]

A friend of mine who lives in Scranton, calls the area the south side.
Close to Green ridge road.

After a quick check on the PFBC site, the only stream in the area that's stocked, is a section of Roaring Brook by a town called Dunmore

The Green Ridge section of Scranton is really the North Side but regardless, that is WAY, WAY bellow the lower stocking limit of Section 1, the only PFBC stocked section.

If the mud snails were found north of Carbondale or Simpson, I'd be inclined to suspect infected hatcheries.

If they were found in Olyphant, North Scranton, Green Ridge or below...

...I'd blame fishermen.

 

[troutbert]

...I'd blame fishermen.

Not good enough.

FLY fishermen must be blamed.

 

[riverwhy]

Not good enough.

FLY fishermen must be blamed.

Not good enough.
Fly Fishermen who target invasives browns. 🙂

 

[caddisflyer]

Yes, they stock it way up top but the river also gets stocked for a kids tournament lower down in town. I don't know where they get those fish.

 

[Mike]

Not good enough.

FLY fishermen must be blamed.

When it comes to what I suspect is the angler portion of the spread, I would tend to think that a strong majority jumping from one famous or well known water to another are fly anglers. Obviously some other anglers make the jump at times as well, but remember that many special reg areas are limited to flies and artificial lures. Even DH Area participants have in the past averaged 70% fly anglers despite being stocked trout sections. Furthermore, the frequency with which the snails so far have been showing up in special reg areas, near-by waters to the special reg areas, and famed limestoners can’t be ignored.

 

[Cznymph]

In what section of the river were they discovered?

Only Section 1 is stocked so if they aren't in that section, blame anglers...

It’s a good thing that these snails aren’t super tiny and could possibly be carried down stream by water currents.

Oh wait…….

 

[Fish Sticks]

It’s a good thing that these snails aren’t super tiny and could possibly be carried down stream by water currents.

Oh wait…….

And stocked fish don’t move downstream looking for less crowded conditions after being dumped into super dense clusters that have so much bio mass that not even a pristine reference condition of the watershed could have created right?

 

[Fish Sticks]

PFBC has a real nice set up. Meep stocking fish that harbor invasive species then absolve themselves of any responsibility when those invasive species show up because anglers “could” have done it. “Theres a possibIlity it might have not been our hatcheries guys so lets CHANGE NOTHING”

 

[Mike]

When have they made that specific argument?

 

[dryflyguy]

Not good enough.

FLY fishermen must be blamed.

I disagree.

As far a I know, there are three Central PA streams with mud snails now - Spring, Bald Eagle, and Fishing Creeks.
When they were first discovered in Spring Creek, it was pretty logical to assume that they would wash down into Bald Eagle too.

The regulations on all three streams permit all tackle fishing.
And I've seen just as many people spin fishing, as fly fishing on them.
Plus, many people kayak on Spring and Bald Eagle too
But only fly fishermen spread it?

I haven't been fishing the Lacky for very long.
But in my limited experience there, I'be seen more local people there spin and bait fishing, than FFers

Speaking for myself, I've been pretty diligent about where I'm fishing.
And usually carry 3 pair of waders - and boots - to use in different waters.
I also have several good FFing friends who are just as anal about it as me

 

[Fish Sticks]

When have they made that specific argument?

By deciding to stock fish that their own hatchery workers say “ cannot be guaranteed to be disease free” and then putting up signs like this everywhere else

They are telling YOU that YOU are responsible for transporting mud snails. They have omitted from the public that they are engaging in very high risk behavior by moving around invasive species that they say they cannot guarantee do not contain an Asexual invasive snail that can reproduce rapidly.

Maybe we should put up signs that say the following for PA fish and boat

I am not saying anglers do not need to take responsibility and freeze their gear or use chemical treatment but PFBC is taking ZERO responsibility. The only time they ever say anything is when its leaked the press grills them. Like everything else ZERO accountability for these or other invasive species they spread

 

[Fish Sticks]

Has anyone else thought about that PFBC is the biggest spreader of aquatic invasive species for a single entity in the entire state with around 5.5 million invasive trout and thats not even counting other organisms like snails and THEY are considered the “point” on stopping AIS on the governors invasive species council???? How Fu*ked up is that!?!?

 

[Fish Sticks]

Now the flathead posts on social media have dropped the descriptive term “invasive” and the nature of the posts have shifter from educational to the harms to “look how fun these things are” “buy a license”. Of course we have a bunch of streams that get fish from benner with mud snails its like scratching your head and wondering why there are presents under the tree in all the houses santa clause hit.